tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post8344955711199354097..comments2024-02-16T14:10:12.166+08:00Comments on Bibliophile Stalker: Essay: Sexism/Racism in Anthologies and BalanceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-85480853110312042512009-11-20T21:59:52.319+08:002009-11-20T21:59:52.319+08:00Great blog as for me. It would be great to read so...Great blog as for me. It would be great to read something more concerning that topic.<br />By the way check the design I've made myself <a href="http://www.admirableescorts.com/" rel="nofollow">London escort</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-34462290813025347772009-10-14T21:38:49.944+08:002009-10-14T21:38:49.944+08:00erm, that was me, JeffVerm, that was me, JeffVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-75051307490279166572009-10-14T21:37:45.968+08:002009-10-14T21:37:45.968+08:00Charles--I've thought long and hard about that...Charles--I've thought long and hard about that very issue regarding Angry Black Woman. The fact is, I don't think people would be listening without the aggressive approach. I know for a fact it does stop people from commenting out of fear, but although at first this gave me pause the more I thought about it, the more I was okay with the trade-off. Because the fact of the matter is: most people don't post about a lot of things out of fear. And as I understand it ABW and efforts like it were born out of a frustration of not being heard. So it's hard to criticize the approach.<br /><br />The reason I mention a wave 2 is that I do believe that the progressives are now a powerful voice on the internet, and that editors and others do take them into account when making decisions. Being in-your-face made that happen. But there needs to be a wave 2 that's about outreach and building things rathe than about tearing things down. I mean, Angry Black Woman is called Angry Black Woman. What are ya gonna expect to get when you go there? And that's probably an important component for awhile. But long-term, radicals of any description--in my opinion--can only effectuate further actual change by outreach, dialog, and creation. So you get the attention of the elites by being aggressive and take-no-prisoners. Then you either morph into something that does many other things, or you develop another arm or division that does the more nuanced things.<br /><br />Theoretically, you could say this is already in place to some degree--Aqueduct is a potentially powerful publishing arm of progressives and radicals. And so on and so forth. There's probably a lot of stuff out there I'm not aware of simply because I'm...really busy. LOL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-59169920824881763422009-10-14T12:41:27.572+08:002009-10-14T12:41:27.572+08:00Thank you for putting into words what I could not....Thank you for putting into words what I could not. Your points are cogent and wise and I appreciate JeffV's thoughts to. It is getting the information from the horse's mouth, as it were.John Ottinger III (Grasping for the Wind)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08756730060406897339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-49212202378838408362009-10-14T10:35:04.973+08:002009-10-14T10:35:04.973+08:00JeffV:
Re: Steampunk -- it's a dynamic and ev...<b>JeffV:</b><br /><br />Re: Steampunk -- it's a dynamic and evolving scene. For example, we have authors like Cherie Priest now which weren't available, say, 5 years ago. So context plays a big role.<br /><br />As for diversity and people's reactions, we honestly don't know. Some people will cite your track record as proof that you're not prejudiced/sexist, while others WILL use your track record as reasons for not coming out with a balanced TOC.<br /><br />Yeah, lots of other variables. Including, say, soliciting two stories from an author for the same anthology. Or compromising with your publisher. (Hate to sound like a broken record but tackled some of those points in my BSC Review essay linked in the blog entry.)<br /><br />Yup, Angry Black Woman serves an important role but some of the contributors, in my opinion, are a bit too aggressive to the point that it makes people afraid of discussion (but then again, would people be listening to their ideas if they weren't aggressive?).<br /><br />Your thoughts are always welcome.Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773038335190893557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-58578250011645368562009-10-14T10:23:43.392+08:002009-10-14T10:23:43.392+08:00Thanks for the comments everyone.
Alec: Unfortuna...Thanks for the comments everyone.<br /><br /><b>Alec:</b> Unfortunately, assembling anthologies is more Art than Science. You might have a plan where you solicit 50/50 male/female writers for example, but honestly, the stories you actually receive (much less accept) won't be 50/50. <br /><br />It also varies in theme: if I were to do a pulp fantasy antho for example, while there are A FEW women writing in that field a few decades ago, the antho won't be a 50/50 split (or 60/40, or even 70/30). There needs to be context.<br /><br />And as JeffV pointed out, what is acceptable? There is no objective "acceptable" number. For some people, nothing less than 50/50 is acceptable. For others, a few high profile authors might be enough.<br /><br />Another thing to consider is space. What if there's only one woman in an anthology but she gets a novella and the rest of the authors just short stories (or to an extreme, flash fiction)? <br /><br />And yes, editors need to balance a lot of things. It's not an ideal world. See my BSC Review post that I link to in the essay for other variables that enter the equation aside from gender/minorities.<br /><br />(Also, there is no "perfect" anthology. Everyone will find strengths and flaws in them.)Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773038335190893557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-84729660872064066272009-10-14T10:15:25.526+08:002009-10-14T10:15:25.526+08:00Charles, I appreciate the thought and measured ton...Charles, I appreciate the thought and measured tone that went into this essay. Though, you seem to stop just shy of saying exactly how an anthology should be composed to be acceptable; you eliminate the extremes and leave a narrow middle-ground. I also feel that some statistics would have gone a long way towards developing a more comprehensive argument. <br /><br />I don't assemble anthologies, but I can't help but feel that to not be criticized in some way editors need to balance so many variables that they are left with very little room to navigate. The proof is simply the length and depth of your own arguments, which are entirely reasonable.bloggeratfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13070448374018984315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-64634543730115130252009-10-14T10:11:51.849+08:002009-10-14T10:11:51.849+08:00I think this is a great, balanced post, Charles.
...I think this is a great, balanced post, Charles.<br /><br />There really wasn't much from women to choose from for Steampunk, given our very specific brief. We just made a note to rectify that for the second volume, which would be less about capturing a view of iconic Steampunk and more about the last ten years. In fact, we'd be totally remiss if there wasn't more diversity in the follow-up.<br /><br />Although completely sympathetic to and in support of diversity and the points of view expressed by Shweta, for example, I did wonder if Steampunk had come out a year later if we would've been hung out to dry for having too few women and minorities in it, and where the line exists? In other words, if we did 20 anthos with balanced TOCs and then one that was 10 men and 1 woman, would we be given the benefit of the doubt? I'm more than willing to put up with a little butterflies-in-the-stomach feeling--are we going to be hoisted from the yardarm?--on that score to support progressives on these issues, but it does cause some stress at times. <br /><br />If I were to edit a gritty noir antho...well, most of my favorite noir writers are men. If I were to edit a short fantasy fiction antho, traditional or avant garde, almost all of the writers I'd invite would be women because those are my favorites. Would I be within my rights as an editor to have those kinds of imbalances or not?<br /><br />I've thought about these issues a lot, and thought about the economic pressures--which is to say, most anthos require "names" with mega sales behind them in order to sell an antho to a big or even an indie publisher. Very few minority writer names get bandied about in that context--I am not saying this is a good thing, I'm simply reporting a fact--which means editors have to be even more proactive and on guard. What would be more impressive and useful than a list of minority writers is a list of minority writers who sell really well--this would give antho editors more ammo.<br /><br />I do think radical pressure from places like Angry Black Woman has served a very useful purpose: it has actually made some *publishers* begin to think of something other than the bottom line--which helps loosen up things other than just minority diversity. That's not the only benefit of such activism, but it's been interesting to see that pressure eat away at the monolith. A more balanced approach may be needed in future--wave 2?--so there's not some kind of horrible schism with perfectly nice people who are sympathetic but can't stand the shouting, but it's got a definite use.<br /><br />I do think that some of this issue will go away over the next ten years as it seems to me there are more "next gen" minority SF/Fantasy writers now than at any time in the last decade, aided by the activism. Which means there will be more minority genre writers in mid-career in another ten years.<br /><br />Does this make sense? I always feel weird when I comment on these kinds of things.<br /><br />JeffVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-91342502084507199142009-10-14T09:13:13.293+08:002009-10-14T09:13:13.293+08:00Nicely put, Charles.Nicely put, Charles.Kaz Augustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01839835518368442832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8903848080840259127.post-60293493992326403572009-10-14T08:32:07.245+08:002009-10-14T08:32:07.245+08:00Excellent comments, Charles. It's a very balan...Excellent comments, Charles. It's a very balanced assessment of the issue.<br /><br />As an editor, I do not deal in quotas or tokenism or really think much about the gender of authors as I am reading stories. When I make my selections, it always works out naturally that there are some males and some females among the writers. So when I see collections of stories that ARE all-male it makes me suspicious. Of course there will be things like reprint collections of, say, sf stories from the so-called "Golden Age" when barely any women were publishing in the genre. But I am thinking more about contemporary collections of fiction of more recent vintage. <br /><br />Given all the attention to this topic lately, I have to say I am quite pleased that the antho I just finished putting together happened to end up half-and-half men and women without any intention of having it be that way. It suggests (at least to me) that balance and diversity can be achieved without resort to quotas and tokenism but simply by selecting good material that fits what you describe as the thesis of a book.<br /><br />Thanks for this essay, Charles, and all the good work you do!Christopher Fletcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04693818922723866269noreply@blogger.com